 Amy R. Jones |
Donating Time Vs. Donating Pictures Hi Everyone, I am in the very first stages of starting a small photography business, and was recently asked to do candid shots at a local philanthropy event. I would be "donating my time", which I am happy to do for the organization. I am actually quite happy to give them the digital files for their use as well. (They are providing me a great marketing experience.) My question is this: The event is taking place at a local mall, and the coordinator from the organization mentioned that the mall might want some pictures for advertising purposes. Now, there is no contract (yet), and wouldn't that mean that I get into the whole realm of model releases? And would it be wrong for me to charge the mall for digital files when I'm giving them to the organization for free? I don't want to be rude, but I also don't want to be taken. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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Maverick Creatives |
Hi, Amy. Don't ya hate it when this happens? lol. Well, I'd look at the advertising opportunity before I'd look at the cash reward. The mall - and the club, for that matter - may result in numerous people learning of your talents. At this point in your business, it should be easy to determine what is more important ... advertising and word of mouth promotion or $$$$. Regards Gary
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Mike Carlson |
I would certainly rethink your desire to go into business if you are thinking that giving away your work is an effective marketing tool. Another way of looking at this is that you put no value in your skills, equipment or time. How many times have you gone into any store at the same mall and had someone hand you an item for free in the hopes that you'll then come back and buy something? What word of mouth would that spread? Go to XYZ store and get a free shirt ... and then if people had to pay for it when you got it free ... and what about the other shirt shops who have to compete with a store giving items away - they too lose business. The basic fact is that you are giving away your work and hurting yourself and other photographers by doing so since people will see you as a source for free work, not as someone who is worth paying for. Make good images and get paid for them - the quality of work will be the word of mouth.
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Debbie Del Tejo |
While I tend to agree with Mike to a certain degree, I will tell you that giving back to the community is a wonderful way to get your name out there if you are a beginner. I have done a lot of work for the community and the NON-PROFIT organizations in the area. They in turn have rewarded me tenfold with wedding referrals, senior portraits, etc. I suggest you examine your conscience and see if this is beneficial to you ... have them give you credit in the program or at a later time set up a display of your work. It is not all bad to donate services ... you just have to be careful who and when you do it to. Don't be taken for granted. Good luck!
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David King |
I generally agree with Mike but would slightly rephrase it: do good work and receive something of acceptable value in return. Sometimes - but with astronomical rarety - an acceptable value comes from the exposure and advertising. But 99% of the time, if you give your work away you have just told the client and the world what you are really worth and absolutely nothing comes of the exposure except that. Often to get you to work for free someone will hold out the "carrot" of other sales, such as to the mall. The odds against that happening are also astronomical and, worse, you may find that the event organizers gave some to the mall for free (after all, it didn't cost them anything) for a break on the deal and essentially stabbed you in the back. And, trust me, if it happens, they will be taken completely by surprise by your irritation at that. And finally, although people coming to the event specifically may have, like people in a football stadium, signed or implicitly agreed to being photographed by purchasing and using the ticket, if the event is not self-enclosed, your shots may include people who have NOT agreed to any such thing and you certainly need releases for them in the off-chance the mall will publish one. Guess who will be included in the list of defendants if one of those photos includes a tender loving couple proudly displaying their affection but who are not SUPPOSED to be a couple? But if you are determined to go ahead, at least get a contract where you retain ALL rights to the images and files and the event people only get a license to USE the images and, at that, for a very specified purpose for a specified period of time. If you do not do this, you may get an even ruder surprise to discover that you CANNOT sell to the mall because the event organizers actually own the rights to the images which you, unknowingly, gave away as "work for hire" precisely because you did NOT charge for it. Bottom line: You are treading on thin ice from a business sense. Were this thread to continue long enough, hundreds of pros could tell you horror story after horror story of early-on trying to give away work to gain work and how it always, ALWAYS failed. Mike is right, you will be branded as a cheap photographer and it is a VERY hard brand to eradicate. David
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Steven Libersky |
Hi Amy, Your predicament comes up many times with all hobby and professional photographers. I just had this conversation with a professional photographer friend of mine. She is always getting asked by friends and family and they think they should (get a deal). This is a good time to sit down and set a precedence. You must decide how you will react when family and friends ask you to take their graduations, weddings, etc. When to charge or not to charge. When to volunteer services and when not to. This has happened so often to me I cannot begin to tell you. I only shoot pictures for a hobby and I decided years ago that I could not do this professionally. So I decided that I would respectfully decline all events unless there is a real hardship of finances and they could not afford a proffesional. I know this has saved me much frustration. I agree with Mike, Debbie, and David you should not do your work for nothing. Even if you charge you will get exposure. You can use it in your portfolio and etc. If they choose not to then you know all they wanted was some freebies. If you set a precedence now you will save yourself many frustrations now and for the future. Steve
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Denise Remfert |
Amy's thread started by donating pictures for a charity. I have done several things for non-profits and find it very emotionally rewarding and have gotten a few followup jobs from it. Does anyone have a thought about a way to get tax deductions for the photos? You cannot claim your service but the outcome is a product that is donated. Is this possible? Denise
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Amy R. Jones |
Hi everyone, Thank you so much for your input. The charity event went well, I did take some photos for them, and they will use a few for their newsletter, etc. Luckily, interest from the mall never panned out. (and the files I'm passing on to the charity didn't need to be very large for their uses, so I'm not too concerned about them being used elsewhere.) Amazingly enough, I've already had 2 calls about appointments from people I met that night, so I guess it was time well spent. Now, Denise- I had someone suggest this method of tax deduction to me. See if it makes sense to you. a. You charge them for your services. b. They pay you. c. You make a cash donation to them for the same amount. That way, You can write off the legitimate donation. I don't know if that makes sense. Just something that was suggested to me. Amy
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Debbie Del Tejo |
As long as you tell them what your services is worth and they give you a receipt, that is a good enough record for tax purposes.
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Nick Milton |
amy, When you start a business,any business,you have to provide loss leaders,and heaps of promotion etc etc,mike was a bit hard I think,this is a new venture,get some work out there and let people see it,it will come back two fold.but explain that its promotional,because like mike says,giving stuff away de values you,and us.but you do need exposure,and like pictures,good exposure is gold.
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