 Lisa Carpenter |
Cropping Hell Oh my gosh! Please someone tell me how to handle. I placed my first really large professional order and did it through ProLabExpress.com and just got the pics back. I think I nearly cried. I understand we have to allow for SOME cropping when you enlarge...but what the @$#! ???? Some images were so doggone cropped that I am going to have to have them redone. What about images that are shot tight and now I cannot seem to get the whole image printed when enlarged? Is there any way around that????? I really need some guidance. thanks
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BetterPhoto Member |
Lisa, I crop all my pictures myself before I send them to the lab. That way I know that they look exactly like I want them. I use ProLabExpress and love them. Now I don't know about letting them do my cropping since I have never done that. What camara are you using? I have the 20D which has a 2:3 ration. Meaning the pic could be printed as a 2x3, 4x6, 8x12 etc. without any cropping. There is no physical way though to make an image off of the 20D an 8x10 for instance without some cropping. You have to either print an 8x12 or leave some room when you take the picture. I learned this the hard way, but now have finally gotten the feel for the cropping issues. Hope things work out for you. I really think that the cropping myself really helps though cause I am pretty sure most labs crop from the center and this way you can crop the way that you want. hope this helps a little. you might call them, maybe they will work with you on a reprint as far as costs goes. maybe you can argue that you didn't know how they cropped images. The worst they can say is no. amber
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Lisa Carpenter |
Hi Amber, Yes, learning the hard way really leaves knots on my head. I too have the 20D. I am finding that I might have no options on the 5x7's, but the 8x10 I can go up to the 8x12's. I think for me learning the hard way when you have been paid really cracks on the confidence level. ya know? Do you mostly have the lustre finish? What kind of finish is it where I have seen some pros do where there is a little bit of texture, the pictures just look richer...thanks Amber!!
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Brian A. Wolter |
The best way is to crop your images to the sizes you want before sending to the lab. Believe me I have learned the hard way too...
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BetterPhoto Member |
Lisa, If you are talking about the finish that studios use on their larger prints, it's probably texture spray. Kinda pricey, I think a minimum of $4 or something like that from prolab, but I usually only mention it to the people that are ordering 11x14 and larger. I think I have only had one person actually order it though. It did really look nice. I get the lustre finish on everything unless I print on the metallic paper. They don't offer it on that, it's more of a glassy paper. You should send your favorite B/W in as an 8x10 and have it printed on metallic paper. You'll be shocked at how goregous it is. I sell B/W collages that way all the time. Especially after they see it. I have another thread about my wedding that I just did. If you check it out, I have a collage posted in that thread that I had printed on the metallic. I also had it mounted. (I printed one for the customer and one for me for a sample) The results were stunning. sometimes I find that if I can't get a pic to look great as a 4x6, I'll print them a 5x7 for no extra charge and they usually really appreciate that. That way, it looks good and they leave thinking I'm the most generous person ever. So maybe you could just print your 5x7's a little larger for them. Just an idea. What was the sitting from? Hopefully not a wedding......That's my nightmare, that something will go wrong for a wedding. Yikes. amber
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Lisa Carpenter |
Hey Amber, no, thank god it wasn't a wedding. I haven't ventured down that path yet. How can I make the 5x7's a little larger? That part confused me. Now as far as cropping before the images go to the lab, are you cropping with the crop tool or resizing the images???? Tonight I am just feeling a bit deflated. Hate that. I am truly excited to try the Metallic paper...would you recommend more than lustre for b&w???? thanks a mil!!!!! Oh, the sitting was some studio pics of my friend and her two daughters both in studio and outside candids...
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Lisa Carpenter |
Amber, where is your thread?
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BetterPhoto Member |
I think in general lustre is fine for B/W's. I usually print mine that way. The metallic paper is just really cool for some things. I really like collages printed in them, but some might not like the way it looks. You can print color images on it too, I just haven't yet. When I crop my pictures, ( I use photoshop CS ) I use the crop tool. I type in the size that I want it to be and I crop everything at 300dpi. So far I have had no problems. You can resize though, the reason that I don't is there is usually something that I want to do to the pic such as making it more centered or just cutting some of the "dead" space out that I had to leave in order to accomodate the larger crop sizes. By printing it larger I just meant, if it would look better as a different size, 8x10, or even a 4x6 or whatever, I usually print both sizes so that they have the size that they ordered and then the one that looks better after cropping. They usually appreciate it. I only have it come up once in a blue moon but I live in a small town. Good news travels fast, but bad even faster and so I want everyone to be as happy as possible. My first sitting, the lighting was so bad, but it was my sister and her family and she didn't care at all. Still has them hanging on the wall. I wanna rip em down everytime I go to her house. :) amber
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BetterPhoto Member |
sorry that would have been helpful huh..... http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/QnAdetail.php?threadID=18963
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Lisa Carpenter |
Hi Amber, I checked out the collage and I like very much! Thanks for the suggestion on metallic paper.... So, basically what I am finding is this....if my photo doesn't have a good bit of room, I pretty much have no alternative????? Also, if you crop how you like it and then send it in as a 5x7 or 8x10, won't they then crop it again? Sorry if I seem confused..
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BetterPhoto Member |
Sorry to say, yeah, but pretty much no alternative in this case. Let's say I want 1 picture as a wallet, 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, and an 11x14. I send the lab 5 different files. I usually name them accordingly so I know what I'm doing when it comes time to order. Such as image 00011 would be named 46 00011 so that I know what to order from each file. If you order the size that you have it cropped to, the lab will not do any additional cropping. make sense? amber
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Lisa Carpenter |
I think....I think....I guess my big confusion is that when I crop something and then I order a specific size, I notice that they crop but I have the choice to move the crop box around. But maybe that doesn't happen when you do cropping first??????? Also Amber, have you used MPIX.com as well? Is one better than the other, ProLab or Mpix?
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BetterPhoto Member |
I have always cropped first and I haven't ever had them do additional cropping to me. I think that they can tell what size it is. (man computers are smart). I haven't used Mpix but I have heard only the best about them. The reason that I go with ProLab is because of the free shipping 11x14's and smaller. MPix is $4.95 I think and they send USPS. ProLab sends UPS ground. I trust UPS SOOOOOO MUCH MORE than the post office. Also I send an order in at least 4 times a week, so at the end of the month if I order from prolab I have made (4 orders a week times $5 times 4 weeks) $80 more than I would have sending them to Mpix. However, as I said, I have heard nothing but the best about them. they just don't fit my needs. amber
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Michelle Ross |
Cropping is something that just has to be learned Lisa. . . it takes awhile . . . I don't know HOW long it took me to realize that a 4 x 6 printed to an 8 x 10 I would lose 2 inches of the photo . . . when you are taking pics you have to come up with some way to think "crop" while taking the shots. . . I still forget once in awhile and it makes me so crazy .. . the other alternative is to print in an 8 x 12 at MPix it's $2.99 vs. 1.99 for an 8 x 10. I personally love this size however frames aren't standard in that size so they would have to be matted . . . they look great matted to a 12 x 16 though . . . MPix allows you to see the crop before you put the image in your cart(the default is from the center out) and you can make adjustments and move the crop area to where you need it. . . you will know if it is not going to print how you want. . . I use MPix exclusively. . . I think I tried prolabexpress but couldn't figure out something . .. I just hate to change really since Mpix has done so good for me . . .but the free shipping sounds VERY appealing. . . When in doubt on my sizes I also size in Photoshop Elements and then upload the exact size I want to print. . . The biggest issue I have with MPix is uploading TIFF files. . . it won't let me and I don't know if it's MPix or my DSL connection . .. makes me nuts too . .. Amber does prolabexpress take TIFF files?? Do you upload TIFF or JPEGS?? MPix claims there's not a difference in the quality . . .but if that's the case then why do they give the option of TIFF or JPEG. . . they haven't answered me on that yet LOL . . .
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BetterPhoto Member |
This is an excerpt from their web site. I usually send my orders in about midnight and they have ALWAYS shipped that same day. They say 1-2 days, but they have never taken 2. Not to say they won't at some point, just not yet.
Your images are sent to us through our file transfer system. Express Prints are perfect for the studios /art directors who wish to take charge of their digital files and provide their own complete file preparation, including color calibration and artwork. This product is used by professional photographers, graphic designers, art directors, and ad agencies. Lustre, glossy, or metallic paper is available. There is a one to two day service time. Express Prints Output Specifications No color correction of files.
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Michelle Ross |
Do you do your own color correcting and stuff Amber and just use the Express prints??? I am at the website now but until they contact me I can't log in or anything!
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BetterPhoto Member |
yeah, I have never used the color correction that they offer. I have always done it myself. I have always been happy with the results. I think that them having to contact me irritated me the first time, but they did it so quickly. if you need prices, I can probably cut and paste the info for you. amber
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Tammy L. Odell |
Amber, Does this prolab express use the Kodak professional paper?? Is that the luster you are talking about? I currently use a lab here in Oklahoma for my proofs @ 25 cents each and plus I pay tax on that (still debating on getting a tax id card) but then I pay $7.50 s+h. The quality is wonderful, but I'd love something cheaper in price. I use Mpix for my enlargements and got my first order today 3 days after placing it. The quality is fantastic. But I'd like to know a little more about the proof services at the lab you use? Do you send a cd or do you upload?
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BetterPhoto Member |
I do upload, but I think that they allow you to send in a CD as well. the lustre is just what they call the "matte" prints. then they offer glossy as well. ProLab is in Michigan so you wouldn't have to pay tax and as I said the s/h is free unless it is a large print. (My 16x20's cost me $4.69 to ship) I upload all my proofs and they cost me $.24 each. (4x5's) You can have them printed with borders or without. They print on fujifilm professional paper and they also print the copyright info and your lab name on the back of all the prints. hope this helps. amber
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Tammy L. Odell |
Thanks Amber, I have never seen the fugi film pro paper. I really love the Kodak professional and hate to switch. I may try it just to see how it compares to the Kodak. It would be nice to save some $$!
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Michelle Ross |
I feel the same way Tammy . .. I hate to not use MPix because I know the color works. . . but just browsing a bit on their site it appears prolab may offer more things than MPix. . . I need to save $$ as well!
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BetterPhoto Member |
Tammy and Michelle, :) I am in no way trying to get you to switch sides so to speak. Nothing anyone could say at this point would get me to switch from ProLab. But, the shipping savings will accumulate, so I would say become a "customer" it's free and send in some samples and compare them side by side. another nice thing about prolab is you can mix metallic and color paper in the same order. And they offer more sizes. I had been using a lab in Iowa. I was very leery about switching and definetly sent in samples before every sending work. Then you can judge their shipping time too. Good Luck with whatever you decide. p.s. michelle I have enjoyed seeing your collages on the cooked husband thread. :) amber
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Michelle Ross |
Hi Amber. . . I'm at ProLab now . .. and the information I'm seeing is that they want their files sized at 300 dpi . .. MPix printers output at 250 DPI . .. so my question is can I resize my TIFF files to 300 DPI(that are currently 250) and keep my image quality?? I know TIFF are supposed to be lossless but I don't want to take any chances. If I end up using ProLab I will just size images to 300 from this point on. I can probably still print from ProLab using the 250 dpi files can't I?
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Lisa Carpenter |
Hi Amber, yes me again.haha. Ok, when I use the crop tool with the presets such as 5x7 and I click on it and press enter, nothing happens. Could I be doing something wrong or is there a way to go about it? I am going to take your advice on how to label the size of the images. Also, can I not convert a RAW file to a .JPEG? I notice in .TIFF, some commands don't work such as my Virtual Photographer. I use PSE3 and I wonder if this is some of the problem. You sound very busy and successful...congrats! Lisa
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BetterPhoto Member |
Michelle, yeah, you should be able to resize from 250 dpi to 300 dpi with no problems. or just try to print them from the 250, I can't imagine that they'll reject the file. Lisa, when you click on the 5x7 preset, then click on your picture and drap it, a box should come up there. Then you be able to resize it there keeping the proportions of a 5x7. As far as I know you can't convert RAW straight to JPEG. I tweak my images in my RAW veiwer and then I convert to Tiff. Then I batch convert to JPEG after I make any other adjustments neccessary. Just remember that the more you save a JPEG file, the more compressed it gets. I save to JPEG last. hope this helps a little. amber
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Michelle Ross |
So you actually print from JPEG files Amber???
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BetterPhoto Member |
michelle, yes, I do all of my work as RAW then TIFF and then do one last batch save to JPEG (level 12 quality) and submit that one for printing. If I ever need anymore work on the picture though, I always open the Tiff back up though and then resave as a JPEG. I never save a JPEG more than once because of the compression. make sense?
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Michelle Ross |
Yea . .. I understand the saving I just keep wondering the difference between print quality of TIFF and JPEG. . . if there is no difference then why is TIFF recommended unless it's for those that do not want to save in both formats to save room on computer space. . . I don't shoot in RAW .. . PSE 3.0 doesn't support my camera in the converter and I don't understand the download thing that will let me do it!
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BetterPhoto Member |
supposedly there is no differnce in level 12 jpeg saved at 300 dpi and the tiff image if the jpeg is saved only once. I haven't been able to tell any differences. I haven't ever printed bigger than 16x20 though so maybe with the really large sizes you can tell. what converter is it that you don't understand....maybe I have the same one. :)
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Lisa Carpenter |
Amber, THANK U!!! Ok, I will try what you said tonight, it makes sense...you have helped so much. Lisa
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Michelle Ross |
Hi again Amber and thanks from me also for the information . . . as far as the converter . . .I"ll try to explain . . . My camera is new enough that PSElements 3.0 does not recognize it so when I try to convert RAW files to TIFF or whatever I can't. There is a download available at adobe I think that will allow me to do this but there was some goofy little process that I had to move something out of my files and keep it in case I needed it again and then I don't know where I am supposed to save the download to . .. I am really more computer literate than I sound I just hate downloading unless it just gives me the places automatically that I need . . . One other question . . you mentioned above that you have printed 16x20 . . .which camera do you have?? and how many mega pixels is it?? I have never printed above an 11 x 14 so I was just curious!
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BetterPhoto Member |
Lisa, Let me know if something else comes up, you can also email me if it's easier. Michelle, I have a canon 20D, I think that it has 8.2 megapixels. (I think). I have found as long as it's a really nice sharp picture, I don't have any trouble with it. My customers don't really decide to go that big except once in a blue moon, but I do quite often. I will go 11x14 a lot of my 2 kids and then have them matted up to 14x18 or something, but if I have one ever of them together or a collage of any kind, I go on up to 16x20. You can still find frames at Walmart for that size and it looks nice on the wall. I don't think people understand that you do actually need a print that big for a wall in your house. I had a freind come over and mention that she thought my 11x14's were 8x10's and my 16x20 was an 11x14. I do have an 8x10 on the wall and it looks like it's being swallowed up by all of the blank space around it. Give it a shot, it'll probably look great. amber
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Michelle Ross |
I know what you mean about 8 x 10 Lisa. . . My problem is I hate just putting a photo in a frame only! I think it makes it look squished into it . . . so what I do is if I want an 8 x 10 is just take it and get a nice coordinating matte and frame it larger that way . . . to an 11 x 14 or so . . . when I print 8 x 12 I matte and frame them to a 12 x 16 and it makes them look amazing. . . it's just unbelievable how much better they look that way. The collages I do I do in at least an 8 x 12 most times. . . I did so the one in an 8 x 10 for the mom I just took pictures for of Grayden but I think it will need to be matted and framed larger and I think I will recommend that to her. .. she took the 11 x 14 I did of her daughter and matted and framed it larger but I'm not sure what size. . . It looked really huge and nice. . . So that is another way to make the pictures look bigger and in my opinion more "finished" in the end! Hobby Lobby is my best friend :-)
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