 KHAWLA Haddad |
How you feel about honest feed back ?? Want to ask this Question for long time but was not sure how everyone would feel but how do you really feel (Honest)about if somone leave feed back good or bad??? would you welcome it or would you be upset if somone leave you one? As for me I would love to hear more on how I can improve my images and quaily of it and try to correct it feed back please.
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John C. Schwentner |
You could not have asked a more controversial question. Personally, I like feedback whatever it might be. I look at it this way; why ask for it if you are not going to accept it? But sadly, many people get into all sorts of arguments over it, and some of them take offense if you give them anything but good feedback. A lot of them are really hoping for a pat on the back instead of a true critique. So, just hang tough, and ask anyway!
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Irene Troy |
Great question – even if it elicits some hot responses! I’m fairly new to serious photography and I have posted my work on this site so that I can get feedback from others. My purpose for being here is to share my love of photography with like-minded people and to learn from more experienced photographers. I appreciate people taking time to view my work and to offer suggestions/advice. I have learned a great deal just by looking at other people’s work and participating in the conversations that go on. Now if someone were to look at my work and respond in a meaninglessly nasty manner I might be upset, but I don’t see much of that here. For the most part I have seen people going out of their way to help one another.
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Matthew Slyfield |
I doubt many people would object to praise (although there are probably a few out there who would). I would welcome any critique as long as it is polite and constructive.
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John C. Schwentner |
Not complaining mind you, becasue my work speaks for itself, it barks! But be careful, there are indeed some out there who will tell you to your face your work is crap! but Irene is more right than not, most are nice
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Collette Photography |
I have wondered the same thing, People usually accept good comments but what if you thought there was something they could work on, I never comment on that 'cause im affraid they would take offense. Personally The reason I put my photos on here was to get unbiased comments good AND bad, not just the good stuff' cause then your not really getting an honest oppinion. I just think if your going to say something you should do it with as much tact as possible!! But If there was a better way I could have taken one of my Pic., or somehow made it better then I want to know, thats what Im here for!!!! Just my thought!!
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John C. Schwentner |
Collete well put! Tact is indeed the keyword. It is indeed hard to tell someone how to improve their work without them taking offense sometimes. I know they ask for it, but do they really want it if its not what they hoped?
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KHAWLA Haddad |
Thank you guys so much for feed back on this I m new but often wonder when I See something that catch my eyes and it can be easy to corect in ps or retaking the shot for instant I hate harsh hightlight but lets say I See it on shot I m fraid to say something speicall if I dont know the person and how would they take it should but for me I m here to share passion I have with people same intrest and learn from other and people been so wonderful here truly great talented and very helpful but want to know from sometime about this and often wonder thank you guys so much for the feed back Ps Sorry about my accent LOL . Have wonderful night everyone
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
The standard I use when commenting is if I don't have anything good to say, I say nothing. To tell you the truth, I am a real beginner in this field so I know that my photos aren't professional quality...honestly, I would be hurt if someone went out of their way to tell me. I learn alot looking at winners and the new judges comments section is wonderful. Besides, whoever made a negative comment might not even know what they are talking about; that's why I think it is best to see what the judges are saying. After all, they are the standard for this contest.
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John C. Schwentner |
Kelly, dont worry about it. Its an inherent evil on here, and you have to exersize your perception if you see something you can fix. You are going to share what you know, and thats what its supposed to be all about. I give my opinion all the time to people, and I have to admit no one on here is more hated than I am, but I will endeavour to perservere! (chief Dan george)
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Susan E. Patrick Harris |
i completely agree irene. i want to learn as much as possible. if someone is disrespectful in delivering the information that I need to get better at photography, I say thanks for the help and let the rest roll of my back. when I was offended or hurt by someone's words my mom used to say "repeat after me, i'm a duck ,i'm a duck, i'm a duck- everything rolls of my back!!!" so far so good!
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John C. Schwentner |
Sherri Boles, youre full of it! I saw your gallery, and didnt have to even finish looking. Several of your photos are just as professional looking as anything I have seen anywhere on here or elsewhere. The Red woodpecker is one example, a great clear wildlife shot, and excellent on the short dof. Emphasis was on the subject here, and well done.
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Matthew Slyfield |
John, I agree, Sherri's woodpecker is an excelent shot. I also like Pit Stop. Matt.
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KHAWLA Haddad |
I Did not mean to start ware or anything lol since I Been here always wonder thats all . belive me I m not expert here I m still such beginer and just start learing but its one of those things that you wonder about .I dont often see feed back Beside yea nice shot , Beatiful and so on . for me personally I have learn so much from looking at others work here and do appraite people comment just happy that they take the time to check out the image and take there time to comment on them gald to have such wonderful community here were everyone is wonderful help and love to leand hand and was happy to have somone comment and let me know what I Was doing wrong for me to pay attention to it and was so thankful for chris who told me about the rule of third I Do love gettign feed back on my images on how I can improve them I would love that if somone saw something in my image that thoguth it would take way from the shot sure would love to know bout it and pay attention to it so would not happed again and learn from it I take feed back with great pleasure becouse I KNOW it would help me become better on what I do but thats just me have always learn in life to welcome feed back and learn from it just my thougth and please if you ever see anything in my shots I Would love to know it. have great night everyone
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Hey you all!! I just really really enjoyed this thread!! This John is a HOOT!! :) Here he is clouting how he can take advice wants advice and asks for advice and I have him on another thread yelling and cussing me out for trying to comment on one of HIS photos!! Now I see why he states why he is so hated here! LOL :o) This is all way too funny to me!!
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Susan E. Patrick Harris |
hey sherry, just checked out your gallery. I think mesmerized is so wonderful! it would be so beautiful as a painting. sph
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John C. Schwentner |
OK now you ve asked for it. Im only hated on here by frustrated women like you with too much time on their hands who are nothing more than self exalted experts. I never cussed you or "yelled" only responded to you in kind. You can say anything you want to me, but lets not lie. I do ask for advice from some people, but I wasnt asking your advice on that subject, I was giving it. You seem to enjoy manipulating what has been said, and now I see you enjoy besmirching me to other people as well. I pity you, you have not only resorted to outright lying, but have stooped to name calling as well.
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Hummm, I think that I just made my point, you are a very interesting person John.
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John C. Schwentner |
The only point you,ve made here is showing others how immature amd intolerant you are, and Ive got to stop allowing you under my skin now or I will be that way also. Now go ahead and take the last word, because I know that youve got to have it!
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Samuel Smith |
hey, honest feedback is just that.get a grip!why not tell someone what you think?friends,neighbors?your kids?the only time there's a problem is what?you don't like it?so what?tell people what you think.that's why were here.i had a friend once,and I still do.sound familar?things are never as they appear,or are they?i am still working on becoming a grate photographer.our eyes see what they see,and the camera takes the picture.bickering is for kids,i'll never grow up.hate me forever,and i'll see you on the next thread. please send all comments to chris or kerry,and I miss karma. sam
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Kara L. Hendricks |
I'm going to put my two cents worth in here... Great question Kelly!! I love getting feedback, although sometimes critique can hurt to hear.. I have found it is almost always right.. Ya know, with all the praise that goes on at BP, a person really has to muster up guts to leave a critiqe... To feel like the odd man out.. So when someone does speak out.. I listen.. BP really has become a forum to lavish compliments on each other rather than contructive critique for improvement the way it was intended.. I think anyway.. And as for me.. I'd rather recieve 1 sincere comment than 50 empty feedbacks simply cause they know my name... Does that make any sense?? Thanks for listening... Kara H.
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Debbie Truesdale |
Getting comments from eachother is why I joined this site. I have never gotten a bad comment, just some suggestions on how I could have done it different.(lighthouse) I agree with Irene if someone is going to be mean then I'd rather they not comment. Look at my gallery and say what you want.. I do want to say I am far from a professional.. Thanks! Debbie
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Linda Proctor |
Great Question Kelly I always like helpful ctitique Like cropping,levels color adjustment Or just how the composition could be improved Just my 2 cents
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Sharon Day |
Sometimes the problem is that the critique isn't really critique. This doesn't happen too often, but I've seen discussions on photos where all the photographer got was, "lousy photo" or "what are you trying to express?" and no help in regards as to how to improve. I think a good critique should offer an opinion as to how the photo could be improved. I rather agree with Sherry, if don't have anything good to say then don't say anything at all. BTW I miss Karma too LOL.
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Stacey M |
Well said Sharon!!! A critique is not a "pot shot" of someones work. It should offer advice on improving an image. Don't tell me my work stinks and leave it at that. Art is a very subjective form of presenting our visions - - everyone will not always like what we do, but we need to be open to others point of views and be kind in responding (or don't respond at all). If my image is out of focus, if I missed the exposure, not the best composition or could have been presented in a more appealing way, I am open to hearing your opinion and suggestion of what I should be doing to improve. But please don't tell me "lousy shot" and leave it at that!! I have received true critique. Once I had a horizon out of line and someone pointed it out to me (in a private email). I truely appreciated the person taking the time to bring it to my attention, as it was one of my first entries here. That type of critique is very welcome as it was done in a polite manner with a suggestion of how to improve my shot!!!
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
I agree with Stacey. It would be rude to just offer a pot shot and not constructive critisism. That is really not effective. I think that it is really nice to just send them a private message stating that you might suggest so and so if you really felt the need.
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
Thanks to John, Matt and Susan for the kind comments! (I have definately improved since coming to BP.) I did like what Stacey pointed about about getting constructive criticism in a private email. I think that was a very polite way for someone to point something out. They made sure the comment was for Stacey's learning and not for everyone else to view. My compliments to that person...very tactful!
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Pat Wimpee |
Great thread! I personally hope anyone commenting on my photos would be very honest with their critique. That really is the only way to learn. I usually know when something isn't right with mine, but I may not know what the "something" is. I have found the people here at BP are usually nice enough to give constructive criticism and believe me it's greatly appreciated.
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Diane Dupuis |
If you're looking for "real" critique you should make sure to put it in your description. Most comments left here by fellow bp'ers are pats on the back. Usually if I've decided to upload a picture I figure it's as good as I'm going to get it (or it's something I want to share with my photography friends). I haven't received many negative comments, but I do think that sending a suggestion for improvement by hitting the contact button is much nicer than saying "Hey your horizon is off kilter" in the thread. There are ways to word the suggestions also, like "have you thought of trying..." "if you get another chance you might think of doing..." "I would like to see this with..." etc. Keep in mind that a lot of times you can't go back to your subject and recreate the shot. But you can make someone think of another way of looking at it when they next come up to such a situation. I'm sure most people would prefer a nicely worded private e-mail with suggestions rather than being bashed on their thread (where their friends will just come back and tell them the shot is just fine). PS: Where did Karma go?
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karenemichaels.com - Karen E. Michaels Contact Karen E. Michaels Karen E. Michaels's Gallery |
I rely on feedback. I need to know to what people respond and to what they don't. I get an idea here, because like stated above, if people don't like a piece, they do not respond. If you have thin skin, critique is not for you.
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StoneHorseStudios.com - Eric Highfield Contact Eric Highfield Eric Highfield's Gallery |
I think what makes it difficult is the submissions and therefore comments are centered around the contest. Generally, when someone enters a contest they think their photo has a chance at placing and are not looking for critique. People who are submitting to win the contest may respond harshly to criticism, constructive or not and some even worry that negative feedback could influence the judges and their chances. I think this has happened enough that people are shy about leaving critique in fear it is taken badly or of retribution feedback. If you really want honest feedback, take it out of the context of the contest and post a critique request in the Q&A. It won't be long before you get a string of well thought-out critiques. -Eric
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Kerry L. Walker |
I agree with John (now ain't that a kick in the pants!). There is nothing wrong with pointing out the faults in someone's photo, as long as you do it tactfully and in an attempt to offer suggestions for improvements. Saying someone's photo is crap is just rude. Saying it is good but needs improvement is just fact. I am happy with some of my shots but there is not a one that could not be improved and I don't mind suggestions on how to do it. The fact of the matter is that sometimes wo do just say "it's beautiful" and leave it at that (mea culpa) when some additional advice is needed and would help. A pat on the back and a kick in the pants at the same time can be helpful.
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Great response Kerry!! I love it! Thats also the attitude I take with my kids LOL! :o)
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Heather Inich |
OK I am a newbie to this site. But I love feedback of any kind. Good or bad, how else are you ever going to find out if your work is good or not?! Good feedback is always a pleasant sight, but if you get constructive critiques, that's all it is.. Constructive, meant to help. But sometimes people can come across with the wrong tone or what not, but I want to be able to learn more so fire away!! :-)
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
I just wanted to add one thing. E-mail messages are hard in the fact that there is not a 'tone' like a voice inflection. So, in a lot of ways there is a mono-tone conversation which is hard to make your emotions come out. A lot of critiques can 'sound' bad because of the voice reflections are not there. Even though they are not intended. I have noticed that a lot of other sites have recently developed a lot of smiley faces you can add right into the discussion to help your true meaning be conveyed. This might help the site a little more with adding some humor to the site. Please visit the photoshopgurus.com site they added a bunch of smileys and it makes it a lot of fun. It also helps to convey a message with more inflection -- in order not to hurt peoples feelings. Just a though......... Any others like this idea????
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Kerry L. Walker |
I think it would be a great idea. I have been wondering why they don't have them.
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Yea, Kerry, some of these smileys are sooo funny they just crack me up!!! They make the discussions so much more interesting! If you get the time check out that photoshopguru.com site it is really quite fun just to look at the smileys!! :o)
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Nobu Nagase |
Melissa, I am afrraid I have to disapgree with you on this one. Those emoticons are good if used sparingly but they could get very annoying. I have seen on another site that these things are used all over. Some them used them about 10 in a row the same smiley face for sour face or whatever... They just colored the message all over. They are used well in the messenger but not here in the discussions.
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Collette Photography |
In my oppinion, I think that if you only get good comments on your photo, and no one ever has the guts to tell you something that you could improve on then they are giving you a false sense of acomplishment. To me the good should come with the bad, thats how you learn. "cause think about it, say you are a beginner trying to become a wedding or portrait photographer, so you put on some of the photos you have taken,and you only ever got good feed back,no one ever had the guts to tell you what you could "try and improve on..." or that "one thing really didnt work, why not try something else...",and so on. Therefore you think that your photos are just great, then someone hires you, you do the shoot, give them the photos, and there like "these arent that great" or something like that, and then you are crushed and dissapointed!!! All of that could have been saved if someone had just been honest and kind!! Just an example!!! Anyways thats my thought!!!
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Samuel Smith |
on a side note,i'm a crew leader,and I got on one of my guys today about his work.he took it the wrong way.so I told him next year if he became a crew leader what would he do?(after he told me he was going to quit)he took it to heart and said,after a ten minute break,I can do better!i will apply myself and i'll have tour job next year.i hope he does.i did not give him a smiley face.young that he is,i think I helped him GROW.i've coached basketball for over ten years and have called timeouts just to say (good job)! good critique,bad critique?parrable? time out,it's beer thirty! sam
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
I think that the smileys would add a lot of character and at least more emotion to this site! I think that they help to convey a true message with inflection. Sometimes the written word just can not convey what the voice can that is why so many people use these smileys. It helps with a lot of miscommunication. I am all for communication and if you can improve it in anyway I am for it! :o)
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John C. Schwentner |
I have to agree with Nobi on the emoticons. Too much clutter, there is enough already. Kind of a "schoolgirl" thing like in emails. Would get old in a hurry
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Emoticons and a private email just to tell somebody the horizon is crooked. There's some resilience that some people are seriously lacking.
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Karthik M. Siddhun |
Hi, I just love to get the comments and feedback on my images. Only the opinions and critisicms from others, make me to understand the mistakes what I had done. I personally give respect to feedbacks on my images. With Regards,
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- Dr Silly Contact Dr Silly Dr Silly's Gallery |
I only make comments on photos that I like. I do not think I have the skills to critise other peoples photos. I think feedback is good if it is helpful. I welcome feed back for my photos. Oh please no smileys. thank you ps: how do you get your photo on feed back on the left side of the screen.
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John C. Schwentner |
William, go to bp and sign in. Go to your own member info. Click on update mini-pic. Youll get a screen to pick pre-dont images, or you can browse for any of your own.
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Pat Wimpee |
Collette, I agree with you completely!! I would much rather hear how my photo can be improved, instead of having an inflated opinion of how good it is only to have a customer tell me it's not good. That's what this site should foster. My friends and family can tell me great shot, but I know that they don't see the finer points that other photographers might see.
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- Dr Silly Contact Dr Silly Dr Silly's Gallery |
John thanks for the info on the mini-pics.
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John C. Schwentner |
Youre welcome, Bill, did you figure it out?
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Bob Cammarata |
I'm all for avoiding the smiley icons. If you want to interject one in your post, use :)...or :( (simple, yet subtle.) ;) As to getting honest critiques,...this site is indeed much tamer than most.
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John C. Schwentner |
Quite right, Bob however; some of the people say they want open critique and dont mind open forum and anything will be appreciated blab blah, but funny, often times when they get the not-so-hot-praise, they forget they said that lol!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Starting to sound like a day care center.
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John C. Schwentner |
Well, you like it here too dont you?
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Laura E. OConnor |
I totally agree that sometimes the pleasantries are spread around a little thin, but that's also what keeps us beginners feeling like we're on the right track. If any of my photos is out of whack, I want to know it! That's why I post more than just my "BEST" photos, so that I can improve. Any helpful advice I can receive from other photographers on this site, most of which are better than I, can only be perceived as them caring enough to help me improve. I joined BetterPhoto to learn to take BETTER photos! I'd rather for no one give a crap! I can take a kick in the pants with the best of them. THAT BEING SAID... offer your helpful advice, but don't take the liberty of tearing me down publicly or telling me I'm a terrible photographer without offering a good healthy dose of why you think so and suggestions on how to imrove. Finally, some of us (myself included) need to try to be less sensitive. Critiques are optinions, take them or leave them!
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Laura E. OConnor |
I MEANT... I'd rather them offer help than for no one to give a crap! (Sorry, I did proof read, but hit cut and paste and really messed up my point!)
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Jay Soldner |
personally, i'd like to see more Real feedback (even in the open forums). Say I click on a picture that I think is great, but someone else thinks it's sub-par. I'd be happy to read another perspective - it may open my eyes to a new way of seeing a picture, or it may make me feel like I'm right and they're wrong - either way, any dialect is helpful. The thing that bothers me most about bp is when I see a picture that sucks, but the discussions are all happy "Oh what a cute picture . . .". Just once I'd like to see a comment like "This picture does nothing for me, and here's why . . . " OK, Now that I've kicked the door wide open, Please, tell me which of my images suck, seriously. How can I improve without some constructive critique. Don't hold back. I won't be angry with honesty.
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Irene Troy |
IMHO, when you post a photo to BP you do so to receive feedback from anyone who cares to offer it. I am always pleased when that feedback is positive, especially when the feedback comes from someone whose photography I admire. When I receive thoughtful critiques with suggestions for improvement I am always appreciative since this is how I learn. Over the past year, since joining BP, I have learned much simply by reading the remarks that people make both on my own work and work by others. I may not always agree with someone’s critique of a photograph, but that does not mean that I think their POV is not valid. The only time I get upset about a critique is when someone posts something such as “lousy work: or “forget about photography”. Those type comments, while very rare on this site, are mean-spirited and serve no useful purpose. It is possible to critique a photo without denigrating the photographer. Thankfully, at least in my experience, the majority of people here seem able to offer honest criticism without being mean.
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Collette Photography |
I think Laura and Jay put it very well!! I look at what comments other photos get as well and they are always just possitive, even when There not that great or when there is stuff they could have improved on. If everyone privitly e-mails people on there photos, then there is no way for us to learn from seeing other peoples photos!! Also no smiley's- just use a lot of exlamation pionts!!!!!!!! And %*), =*), 8*), ect.. to get your piont across. -Collette-
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
I am still sticking to my guns about the smileys. I understand that some of you disagree but I belong to a lot of different forums and it sure takes the "edge" off the conversations. I also have experianced on other sites that they can make a critique comment and post one that scratches its head or is thinking. They take the edge off, people in these forums seem to be more open and give a good feel. Now that we have heard several negatives are there anyone that thinks this is a good idea, (I have recieved some emails)
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Laura E. OConnor |
I see what you are saying, Melissa, but am reluctant to agree. I have started using some of the :) and ;) characters but I don't know about adding a ton of bright yellow happy faces everywhere. I don't have experience on any other photo critique web sites so far, and am glad I found this one to break me in (gently, from the sounds of it). I just think that if we can articulate what we are trying to say, there should be no need for icons. I'll have to think on that more. ;)
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Articulate is easy it is the 'tone' that inflicts tact that is the hard part to convey when conversing through email. Most of these are not even typical smileys anymore they are characters (it is amazing how they can express the 'tone')so they really don't seem to get redundant.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I think a lot depends on the person involved and what is going to be said. I might mention a crooked horizon, but would never argue someone's talent or the subject matter. Personally, I'd rather hear bad news by e-mail or somewhere outside of the contest comments. I've had people go waaaay back to some low res shots when I first started and ask me what the heck I thought I was doing. Well, of course, not being sure which end of the camera was which, I had no idea what I was doing. That's how we learn. All I'm saying is BE NICE!! Nobody wants their head ripped off in public.
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Gianna Stadelmyer |
Sorry to be joining this so late... have been traveling and now house hunting! (What a headache - for both)! My take on this is that yes, this is a contest site, but it's also a learning site. I have learned a lot just by looking at winners and finalists. That being said, a lot can be learned from a good critique. And when it's done on a thread, if it's done right with professionalism and tact, then it can teach anyone who visits that thread. I have mentioned tilted horizons before and always pair it with something good about the photo too. But if the horizon is left unmentioned, then that photo may get overlooked for a contest finalist or keep it from winning. So, I think it's helpful to mention. And if done on the thread, then it makes others aware of their horizons too. I am pretty thick-skinned when it comes to critiques as long as they don't become personal or rude. Five years in college for a BS in Art Ed and tons of art classes got me pretty used to taking the good with the bad. That being said, I sell photos on a stock site that allows ratings and critiques on photos submitted and they can be BRUTAL (rude). There is just as much an art of critiquing as there is an art of photography. As was mentioned before, it's all in the wording. Sure, it's great to hear what's great about our images and I love to hear that (or read that) as much as the next gal, but I also know I will never learn - or not learn as quickly - without someone telling me when I am doing something wrong or could improve upon something. Try to state something that's right with the image and then gently suggest what might have been better. I don't think there are too many of us big kids out there that couldn't handle that:-) BP has really helped my photography grow - at least from where I started. I took one of the courses here this past winter and got to choose the kind of critique I wanted from the instructor - brutally honest or kid gloves and I chose brutally honest. I got honest, but there was nothing brutal about it. It was always done professionally.... never a "this stinks" or "what were you thinking". And that helped me see what I was doing wrong and try to improve upon it the next time. Just my thought on the matter :-) Jan
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Laura E. OConnor |
I totally agree, Jan. Most of us are adults on this site. I think TACT is the key word. Be helpful, not hurtful. Fot those that are compelled to be hurtful, the rest of us need to just say "thanks for your opinion" and move on!
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Linda Guidroz |
I would love very much for someone to go to my site and critique my picturs. I invite anyone to go there and look at my pictures. That is how you learn. Please tell me where I need to improve my pictures and how. Thank you for sending in the question I think it is a great one. Linda Guidroz
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Jan, I completely agree!
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Collette Photography |
k, everyone PLEASE critique my photos!! Since Im so FOR the "Good with the BAD", I should be the first to get the brute of the comments!!!! So dont hold back, be COMPLETELY honest!!!! thanks
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