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member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
 

pics become fuzzy when i resize--why??


hi all,

i have a D70, and I when I resize my pics (make smaller), the image looses sharpness. (the evidence of 'retouching' it always shows, and it really bugs me).

why is this, and what the heck can I do???

thanks : )


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5/2/2005 8:42:16 AM

 
Laura Roth   Carrie,

What program do you use for resizing and editing your image? If I were to know this, it'd help me respond. Typically massive lack of sharpness derives from doing too large of a shrink all at once.

Try this: Say you have an image at 1000 x 800 pixels and you want to resize it to 250 x 200 pixels.... it starts at 1000 x 800. Pick one dimension and decrease it by steps of 150... 812.5 x 650 - then 625 x 500 then keep going down until it reaches 250 x 200. You should notice a difference in clarity if you go in increments like that than if you make a large jump. Also, you can use sharpening tools (sparingly) between resizes and that can help too.


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5/2/2005 12:41:50 PM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  (i shoot in .jpeg small (1504X1000), and need to resize to 400X 600).

thanks anyway, laura.


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5/2/2005 4:29:07 PM

 
Bryan Yates
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/1/2005
  I have never heard of this resizing in small steps! I would never clam to be a resizing expert but this seems really off base and point less! I would recommend switching to RAW or at least to a large jpeg!


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5/27/2005 11:48:36 AM

 
Daniel Diaz
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/20/2005
  actually if you resize in increments of halves you should see little to no loss of quality. eg. 1600 X 800 to 800 X 400 ect...


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5/27/2005 1:20:02 PM

 
Bryan Yates
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/1/2005
  I tried this on a few images and can see no noticable change? I don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction!
But this doesn't seem to have much of a effect on the overall image quality. At least at the resolution of a monitor! When you resize from a post processed image and take it down to very small around 500x500 it does become slightly softer, I usually sharpen edges once and it brings it back together. And this is a noticable change and it returns to appearing as the original did! But I don't want to miss lead anyone so try it for yourself and let us know how it works!


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5/27/2005 2:20:24 PM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  thanks.

hi daniel - I use irfanview for resizing, which allows for any increments in %'s or halves. plus my greatest loss is when I resize drastically (eg: in half, or more).

bryan - do you use PS when resizing, and are you using the unmask tool? I use irfanview, because I don't do graphics. I simply do basic/neccessary edits to my photos (eg resize, b&w converting, text for copywrite imprint, etc).

thanks again.


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5/27/2005 8:55:00 PM

 
Christopher A. Vedros
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/14/2005
  Why would you ever want to shoot in jpeg small? You paid for the resolution - use it!

You should always shoot at your highest resolution, then reduce as needed on the computer, and save to a new file name. Then you will have the best original to start with.


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5/27/2005 9:20:15 PM

 
Bryan Yates
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/1/2005
  Yes! I use PS and The Unsharpen mask. But that doesn't make it Graphic Art!
The Higher end SLR digitals leave the post processing to the photographer! You are expected to sharpen your images and make corrections. If you choose to shoot RAW then your camera will do no processing and everything from white balance to expose will be ajusted after the shot! If you are worried about image clarity and resolution you need to look at the large jpeg and or raw features of your camera!


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5/27/2005 9:52:10 PM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  because chris - the end result is needed in the small size and for the web only. therfore: in RAW i'd only get a measly 100 pics, and in large size i'd still would have to resize and i'd still have the same dilemna.

that's why.

bryan - I didn't say that sharpening is graphics. but I also don't use PS the way so many do. that's all.


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5/28/2005 11:27:48 AM

 
Bryan Yates
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/1/2005
  Carrie,
I feel as though I have pushed you into a defensive posture and have no intent in doing that! I have visited your gallery and you have alot of powerful images in your gallery! It is obvious you have a talent for Photography! I would consider the Small jpeg mode as a tool for the working man, a Architect that needs to send snap shoots of electrical panels and work process on a building back to the office. Someone who doesn't care about a quality image! From the looks of your gallery, your not that person. Part of your problem you are having is your giving up the Megepixel power of your camera. Take the largest size image you can to use up those Megapixels and work on them full size. You will have better color response and sharpening reponse, not to mention if you need to crop. Lastly I have had the fine oppurtunity of being published on a few unexpected photos end up on products(Wine bottles calenders and posters).Pictures that people saw on my web pages and asked to buy. Luckly these photos were taken in a large format and at 300DPI or these oppurtunities would have passed me by. You never know when you will be published or what will be published.So I take all photos in Raw 16 bit and just suffer the loss of storage capacity. I saved up and bought a laptop to carry with me for photoshoots. Lots of luck and I hope you find something of value in this advice! Bryan


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5/28/2005 2:42:43 PM

 
Bob Doyon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/11/2005
  Carrie,

Buy a program that allows you to edit RAW. Take your serious photos in this format!

Save money and buy more cards, its worth it.


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5/29/2005 5:08:41 AM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  not defensive, bryan, just didn't think you got my point is all : ) and I want to clarify for you.

So here's my routine:
i have to be able to shoot as much as possible, literally, and I only have a 1 gig card. in RAW I can only fit about 100 pics. in large jpg I can fit 1100 - big difference already in my shooting allowance. then, because the pics are only for the web viewing, I have to shrink them down to about 400x600.

1--if I have to shrink them, I figured I might as well shoot in small size.
2--i shoot in 'fine jpg' quality (a sad, but only alternative to RAW, I figured)
3--of course I keep all originals as well as the the resized ones in case the person in the pic wants/needs a copy for their own portfolio

hope i'm clearer, and sorry I didn't incude all this in my original post, just trying to keep things 'short'.

: ) thanks, bryan!


and bob--i don't think I even know yet what my 'serious photos' are (i don't think i'm up to that yet). I still shoot everything I see, feeling like a blind man taking a picture if you know what I mean. dumb question: is this something i'll see happen, or are you talking about paid jobs?

thanks


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5/30/2005 2:14:36 AM

 
Bob Doyon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/11/2005
  Carrie,

Sorry if I sounded harsh. I did not mean to.. :)

Okay lets look at this...

Carrie: 1--if I have to shrink them, I figured I might as well shoot in small size.

We understand about needing small. Problem is that using small you give up Megepixel for clarity & resolution.

2--i shoot in 'fine jpg' quality (a sad, but only alternative to RAW, I figured)

True to alternative, but no comparing.

Carrie, we are all trying to help, so please don't take this the wrong way. The bottom line is that you need
to spring out for more storage. This way you can have the power to edit in RAW. (Do your own Processing, i.e.; Color, clarity & resolution.)
"Its a fact that resizing in small steps will help with keeping quality"

If you have a laptop to transfer your images this will help with storage problems onsite.

Good Luck Carrie :) & remember we are her to help you not criticize you...

Please Let us know how you make out...

Bob


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5/30/2005 8:35:59 AM

 
Bob Doyon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/11/2005
  Sorry about my spelling errors... :)


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5/30/2005 8:38:47 AM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  hi bob-you didn't sound harsh at all : ) I was just trying to figure out if there were any other alternatives (mainly cuz right now I don't have the money to buy more cards).

i'd like to reiterate for a sec just to see if I get you right: shooting in large gets more resolution (and not just in physical size)?

if that's the case, i'll definitely do that.


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5/30/2005 8:41:22 PM

 
Shawn Wilson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/25/2005
  Yes, shooting at a higher initial size will produce images with better quality. Not to mention better color and tonal qualities. No matter what the end result use is, if you want the best you can get, then you need to start with the best you have. Some would say RAW, but I think that the best JPG would be more than sufficient for you at this point.

Some have mentioned a laptop, and I too use my laptop for offloading images. I'm a network consultant though, so the laptop was already in hand. For the smaller budget there are a TON of mobile storage units these days springing up from the wave of MP3 players with hard drives in them.

eBay shows several hundred options for small storage units ranging from 10 to 80 gigs in size with built in card readers and some even with LCD screens and tv out ports to view and share the pictures you have on them.

Some have said these things are slow, and they may be... but they will hold your pictures for you and that's the point.

My suggestion would be to get one more 1G card... my Lexar 1G 80x pro card was $100 on ebay (never shop retail for cards). Then shop for a handheld storage device in the $200 range. You should be able to find at least a 10G or 20G model for that.

Then you'd fill one card, take it out and start offloading the images while you shoot with the other card. Then switch. Repeat.

Also, even though you only need basic resizing and cropping, a good quality graphic program goes a LONG way to preserving quality of your images. Irfanview is a great program, but personally, I don't think it can compare with Photoshop even with it's resizing ability. It just wasn't made for that kind of work. Add the unsharp mask and PS is a tough contender to beat.

If you can't affort PS, there is a version called Elements out there for much less. I'd imagine that the resizing is the same quality and you may even get the unsharp mask. I can't say though because I haven't used it, but I'd be surprised if they omitted this basic filter.

Good luck, and remember it's always better to have more and not need it then to have less and wish you had more. True of many things, but definately when it comes to photo quality.


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5/30/2005 9:25:54 PM

 
Bob Doyon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/11/2005
  Carrie,

I can understand "Money Issues"... :) I wish I could buy everything I see.

Lots of luck...

Take Care
Bob


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5/31/2005 4:15:33 AM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  hi shawn,

thanks. i'm currently saving for a 2 gig card at this point (i think the 4 and 8 gigs aren't needed yet), and yeah, i've not yet decided what kind of portable storage unit I want to get yet..........any that you personally like or prefer?

actually, I use irfanview cuz you *can't* do much editing, but I DO get what you're saying. it's just that I don't like to do any edits that I can't do in a traditional darkroom : )

bob--lol. aren't many of us in that same boat!

: )


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5/31/2005 4:49:36 AM

 
Shawn Wilson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/25/2005
  I understand the reasoning with irfanview... similar to why I tell people I use notepad to make web pages. Frontpage isn't a tool for web developers, it's a tool for non-web developers that lets them make web pages. I try to avoid even the appearance of a 'newbie' when it comes to development.

In this case though, PS really is the best tool for the job, and truthfully, it's closer to a real darkroom in it's abilities if you only use it that way.

I don't have preference for the little drives as I haven't had any personal experience with them. Like I said, I too have a laptop and use it to offload to.

If you do plan on getting a device like that though, I'd think it'd be a better allocation of money to just get another 1G card and that other device.

I quick eBay search turned up some in the $200 range that were 20G models. I know I've seen ones in that price range go up to 40 gigs and I've seen 10G models for much less. I just don't have time to search for them this morning.

Spend some time on eBay searching for 'card reader' and make sure to check the box to search the descriptions. Also set the price range from say $50 to $300. That should get you the devices in question.

I found several under this catagory:

Cameras & Photo, Digital Camera Accessories, Memory Card Adapters & Readers > searched for 'drive' priced between $50 and $300

Found a 'Photobank' 'camera backup' 'iMAGETANK', and others.

Don't know if this link will work, but here it is:

http://search-desc.ebay.com/drive_Memory-Card-Adapters-Readers_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcatrefZC6QQfrisZ2QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQftsZ2QQpriceZ1QQsacatZ43448QQsaprchiZ300QQsaprcloZ50


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5/31/2005 6:41:56 AM

 
member 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2004
  hi,

thanks. I looked at B&H, and found a Wolverine (10 to 100 gig capacities) device.


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5/31/2005 2:48:45 PM

 
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