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Photography Question 

Donna R. Moratelli 		 

saving images without compression


HI, Can someone tell me how to save files with very large amounts of one color without having them appear compressed. Before I save my image it is beautiful but no matter what format it is saved in, it looks compressed with extreme loss of detail. THANK YOU


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April 23, 2002

 

doug Nelson 		  Generally, save in TIF or Photoshop's psd mode to preserve the image's integrity. Without compression, save it to a hard drive or CD where you have the storage space.

Were these images originally captured as JPEG's? If you worked the image and saved more than once in JPEG mode, you may have done this once or twice too often. You can do it and save all day in JPEG with some images, and get away with it, but then one comes along that won't tolerate it.
If the image originates as a JPEG or some proprietary format, get it into TIF or psd in Photoshop before doing anything to it.


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April 23, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		 
 
 
Hi Doug, Thanks! Here is what I do. My original image is scanned into my documents and saved in TIFF format. After I scan, details and sharpness are usually lost.When this happens , I then try to make adjustments in PS to bring it back to way it looked origionally. After these adjustments, the image looks great. I then save for the web. This is where I loose the details and sharpness again. Most of the time they look worse after I save them then when I started. TIFF and jpg are always compressed, especially when I have lots of areas of saturated colors. These colors are the colors that come from the scanning and not the program. How can I save an image and keep it looking the way it looks prior to the last save?I have avoided pictures like this for too long because of this problem. Thank you! Donnarae


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April 23, 2002

 

doug Nelson 		  My monitor settings went awry once, the settings were for 256 colors, instead of millions of colors. If you're OK there. . .
Scanners these days tout their bit depth, but most of us just scan at the default 8 bit (or 24-bit, 8 each for RG&B). Do that initial scan at 36-bit, 42- bit or whatever it can do. The file size will be huge. Now do your brightness/contrast (Levels /Curves). THEN, go to Image, Image Mode and change the file to 8-bit. You'll see the file size drop. This gives you more color information to start with, so that you don't throw out as much when you make changes. These mode changes should not perceptibly degrade the image.

Is this full Photoshop? You could be compressing too much.
You're a pretty advanced photog; ever consider a film scanner? The cheapest decent scanner, the HP S20, does negatives extremely well. I don't think you'd have this problem scanning off the film.


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April 23, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		  Hi Doug,Thank you again. My monitor settings went awry yestereday and I immediatly went out and bought a new one. It is set up right now. It was the contrast though. The color settings may have been messed up too. Who knows? Regarding getting a film scanner, no way. I'd rather save the extra money and get a decent digital camera. I have heard that the prices are going down and if they do I will purchase one. I have been doing my homework and that seems to be the best way to go for my needs in the future and the needs of the publications that I shoot for. In the meantime I will suffer scanning tons of stock that I already have. Where do I find the information on color bits. I don't recall seeing anything about that. I will try taking your instruction if I can figure out a way to do it. BTW, my scanner is an epson perfection 2450 flatbed photo and film scanner and my imaging software is photoshop elements. I am fairly new to digital imaging as you probably can tell. Does that help at all? THANK you


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April 23, 2002

 

doug Nelson 		  Good choice of a scanner; this one is close to state-of-the-art unless we go over $1000.
For good info on bit depth, go to scantips.com, point 14 on his first page. Ignore the part about dynamic range for now, and read what Wayne says about using higher color bit depths. Try scanning at the highest level, do your tonal corrections and then change to 8-bit. That way you wring the best performance out of this already excellent scanner.
If you're shooting professionally, wait on digital cameras. Before long, you'll see a 6 megapixel SLR that will use the best optics, from Nikon and Canon. Eventually, we might be able to afford them.


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April 24, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		  Hi Doug, Yes eventually?!* Thanks you! I should be able to figure some things out now with all of this information.. BTW, your deluxe website is very resourceful and well executed.


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April 24, 2002

 

doug Nelson 		  Thank you, DonnaRae. I guess we'd better be sure Elements can accept images over 24-bit.
Also, if your scanner has Silverfast scanning software, learn all you can about it. Some quirk in that may be part of your problem. Steve at sphoto.com has an article on Silverfast.


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April 24, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		  Hi Doug, Strange that you mention silverfast. Every time that I have used silverfast with the exception of (1)time, I have had an extreme increase of compression in combination with other small problems. I thought that it was most likley too much color saturation in the photo and an excessive amount of the same color. I will research that situation too. I checked out scantips.com and couldn't wait to get home today to thoroughly examine it. It is a fine website as is yours. With the help of Wayne and all of the tips from you and your excellent articles, I think that I will be headed in the right direction. I have my fingers crossed. (when I'm off the PC)Thanks angain and again!!


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April 24, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		 
 
 
Hi Doug. I am working with the scanner manually now. Here is a picture that I used 48 bit color. It doesn't seem as compressed. Is is degraded too much. I figured how to overide the color settings but not the workable size settings. Could you please tell me what numbers to use as a workspace. My program defaults to its own settings and will not let me put in the numbers that I want to use. I don't understand why.I am assuming that I am putting in numbers that the program cant handle. The picture that I have been working with under the default settings is very small. Is there any way to change those numbers and what would be the numbers to use. Thank you, Donna


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April 25, 2002

 

doug Nelson 		  Compression to me means what an imaging program does to decrease the amount of pixels in a file for a specialized purpose, such as going into the JPEG format for sending, or using LZW compression on TIF's when you have only limited storage space. If you haven't asked Elements to do any compression, it shouldn't be doing any.
I don't have Elements, but there is a way to find out what color space your image is being scanned into. I like the one called Adobe 98, but there are others. sRGB is the one used for images to be placed on the net. Your image could be going right into sRGB, and seeming to be compressed because of that.
The JPEG image you sent is perfectly fine for a JPEG. Nice composition, BTW. We have to remember that a JPEG is not a final product for the serious photog; it's only a convenience we use to talk about our work.
Your concern seems to be with the image you have BEFORE you turn it into a JPEG. I haven't used Silverfast, but I'd encourage you to find all you can about it, as it's supposed to be one of the very best scanning softwares. They all have a learning curve; Nikon's is giving me fits because I need to learn more about it.


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April 26, 2002

 

Donna R. Moratelli 		  Hi Doug, I believe that the image here is TIFF. I was having problems with both Tiff and JPG.My pictures look excellent before I convert and save them. It is always the last save that compresses and kills it. I have been reading Waynes tips and it is now heping me understand the concept of scanning. Thanks for all of the time that you have spent with me and best of luck learning Siverfast!!! Best regards


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April 26, 2002

 
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